Behind Our Eyes Book Launch Presents Author Leonard Tuchyner Interviewed by Brad Corallo November 7, 2022 Transcript Readers Note: If you have found this transcript to be helpful, please take a moment to let us know by sending a brief message to Marlene Mesot at: Marl.Mesot@gmail.com. You may also contact someone you know in our writers’ group. Thank you very much. Ann Chiappetta: Welcome, everyone, to the November 2022 Behind Our Eyes Book Launch. I’m your host Annie Chiappetta and my lovely co-host is Abbie Taylor. Our guest this month is Leonard Tuchyner. He’s written his first novel called Merlyn the Magic Turtle: A Story of Love and Justice. Leonard is being joined by fellow author and Behind Our Eyes member Brad Corallo, who is going to be interviewing Leonard this evening, followed by Q and A and some closing remarks about Behind Our Eyes. Ann: Leonard Tuchyner was born in New Jersey in 1940. He’s watched the world change dramatically, yet in some ways, remain much the same. His life long studies of spiritual and human issues have been strengthened by the counseling work he has done for sixty years. His own gradual path into blindness has brought him into an ever growing understanding of disability and inequity, as well as compassion for self and others. When Merlyn the turtle meets Leonard the man in the summer of 1968, neither of them could possibly know how their friendship would deepen and endure. Merlyn himself has no idea how he can talk. All they know after a very short while together, is that they need one another. You can gets Leonard’s books on Amazon dot com and Kindle and Smashwords and you can go to the website www dot D L D Books dot com slash Tuchyner. That’s spelled D L D Books dot com slash T U C H Y N E R slash. Alright. Take it away Brad and Leonard! Leonard Tuchyner: Okay. Brad Corallo: Right. Well, welcome everybody. We’re going to talk about Leonard’s first novel here. So, here’s the first question, Leonard. You ready? Leonard: No. Brad: Okay, well. Leonard: Go ahead. Brad: Okay, alright. So, the book we’re discussing is Merlyn with a Y, Magic Turtle: A Story of Love and Justice. And it’s a book that takes place in 1968, in Florida. And it deals with some really intense issues like racism and interracial marriage. But at the same time, there’s an element of fantasy that runs through it, because the hero of the book is actually a talking turtle. So, my first question would be, who do you see as the audience for this book? Leonard: Well, I didn’t have a particular audience in mind when I wrote the book. I suppose anybody from the older teens to ninety-six, I think. Brad: So, if I’m ninety-seven, I can’t read it. Leonard: Yeah, ha, ha. Brad: Okay. Leonard: If you’re ninety-seven, they can’t read it. Well, I didn’t have anything in mind when I started it, and I didn’t have the readership in mind as I wrote it. In fact, I didn’t know what I was writing until it told me what I was writing, by the unfolding of the characters and so forth. The way I write is just by letting my mind flow, letting the characters do the talking, letting the situations evolve and I’m responding to them, and so forth. So, I didn’t have an audience in mind, but anybody who’s interested in relationships; loosing relationships, refining relationships, romance, disability. Well, almost the whole gambit of life. They’re going to find this book will have something to say to them. Brad: When I read it, it struck me that it would be a marvelous young adult book. There are ways of marketing it at a couple of sites. One is called the Kirkus Teen Book Review, and another one is called the Online Book Club dot org, because one, the turtle would engage younger folks, and yet there are some important take away lesson but they're not presented in a preachy way. So it really would be an excellent Y A book. It's an excellent book for everyone. I agree with that, but that’s an audience that might, they might start wanting Merlyn tee shirts and stuff. Leonard: I've already commissioned someone for the tee shirts. Brad: Oh, cool. Okay, I wanna get one. Keep me in line. My next question would be, I've had the good fortune of reading a lot of your work being in your critique group through BOE. And so, I’ve seen your writing style, and you can write very descriptively, and you can write dialogue very well. This book is heavily dialogue driven. Can you tell us a little bit about why you chose to do it that way. Leonard: Well, dialogue is a way for me to get to know the characters, because, they actually talk to me. And I don't know what they're going to say until they say it. It also allows me to have a more personal relationship to the audience, because I'm relating to it as it's unfolding, and as it's materializing. So, I have a feeling that other people are being taken along on the ride. So, I'm showing. It's happening as I'm writing. That's a more intimate way of doing it. And that's what I wanted. Brad: Well, yours copies. Stephen King uses that form also. He's always said that he has no idea where his story’s gonna go. He waits for his characters to tell him. One of the things that is an excellent plot device from the point of view of the writer is, you’ve created a situation where both Leonard and Merlyn are looking for someone who was lost to them; someone that they love who was lost to them. And to me, it creates a real foundation for the book. I know you say you don't plan things, but how did that come about? Because to me that’s like the anchor. Leonard: Well, that came about, about a tenth of the way through the book. And I realized that Merlyn had a story to tell, and that's the whole reason why he stuck with Leonard. Why, when he was first discovered, and once that happened, I realized that this had to have a counter part with Leonard's having a problem, too. And so, then the problems were described and the book hangs around these problems. It's built around the decision to find these people, and then how we find them, and then what happens after we find them. And the problems that develop from that, and some beautiful things that happen from that. Brad: It's a very effective platform, really does work well, in this book. I wanna talk a little bit about the characters who talk to you in the book. Some are developed very deeply and some less, but all of them are important and interesting, at least in my opinion. And you have said something to the effect that your characters are based on people that you know or have known in your life. Can you speak a little bit about that. Leonard: Yeah, some of these characters I didn't realize were based on people that I knew. But after examining it, that turned out to be the case, even when it wasn't intended, or there might have been several people that they were based on, but I’ll mention some of them. Dr. Niedermeyer was better known as Mike Goodman, was my boss at the Jewish Vocational Service when I worked there, and his character is pretty well defined in the book. He was exactly like that, and he worked for the Jewish Vocational Service, as he did in the book. Joel was my neighbor actually. And he had the same characteristics as Joel. The name’s Joel Anderson. He was very handy with his hands. very good at technical things, but he wasn't nosey. That I had to make him, particularly at the beginning of the book to add something to the suspense of things. The butler, what's his name? Brad: Harold Sawyer. Leonard: Yeah. Brad: Loved Harold. He was a great character. Leonard: The book alludes to him being involved with the gangsterisms in New York, and that's where Lillian knew him, and I don't know the story about how they met or anything. But he eventually left the gangster business, and became a very able and loyal member of her family. And she relied totally on him to be her support system. I knew some people that were like that. One was…She was dating one of my people that I was working with. Somebody was under my influence. He belonged to the Irish Mafia before he fell in love with her, and he was very capable, and he completely left the Mafia and he just became a good guy and was extremely loyal. I think they might have gotten married. I'm not sure because I wasn't there that long. Leonard: We had a black man in the Jewish vocational service. He was very loyal to the people he worked for. It was a contract shop. It was actually a sheltered workshop, working with the same people. And I had to make reports on them and would develop work programs, and so forth. One day that we worked in the garment district, which was right adjacent to the Ghetto, one of the two Ghettos in Miami, and one of our clients stole a box of material. Well, I wasn't gonna have that. So, I went after him, and Mark, who was deaf, but completely communicative, also took off after him, and we chased him into the Ghetto, and all of a sudden I realized I was being surrounded by people, and I started to make friends as the major thing I was trying to do there, just get through there with one piece. He didn't. He continued to work until he chased the guy, until he chased him down an alley, and then came back screaming that he was handed a gun by some little old lady there, and he joined up again, and we started to continue to walk towards the road, the highway where we would end up. Well, this client, rather workman--I can't remember his name--saw what was happening. He said to himself, “these guys gonna get killed.” And he went to the place where he saw we were headed, and where we would come out if we made it that way. So, he drove there, and he was waiting, and we were able to walk out. And the reason we were able to walk out, we found out afterwards, was because they were confused. They didn't know whether we were narcs or not. So, they didn't know whether to beat us up or not. So, he took us back to the workshop, and we went on, and the next day or two was Thanksgiving, and he went back into the Ghetto to pick up his uncle to have Thanksgiving dinner. And they recognized them now. He had dealed in drugs before, and they knew this, and they knew him. So, they beat him up, and they planted marijuana, or something, in his truck, and then called the cops. The cops picked him up and arrested him. Well, he managed to get out of that after a little to do, but that shows he was extremely competent. He was extremely loyal, and you didn't have any real good reason to be, and I'll be forever grateful for him. So anyway, Harold was partly built after that person as well. Brad: So, having a very broad experience, working with different kinds of people in different settings, you could say definitely that obviously that adds to your ability to develop characters. Leonard: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah. I was a character myself so. Brad: You still are, Leonard. Okay, now I’m jumping around over here a little bit. But I'm just trying to cover as much as we can. So, as we had said before, this is a book that, one of the main issues that it takes on is interracial marriage in 1968. You took it a step further. It wasn’t just interracial, it was interfaith. So, you had a white, Jewish gentlemen trying to have a relationship with a black, Baptist woman. So, did you do that purposely? Make it more complicated than just the interracial part so that you could create these characters and demonstrate how special they really were? Leonard: I think I did in part. Of course, this is after the fact, but I also did it because it mirrored part of my life that I knew something about. When I was in my early twentiess, I met a woman who I married, and I was married for about 16 years, and she was white, but she was a different religion. Well, the current parents were fine with that, but my mother, well she went to extremes, I mean really, to make that not happen. But it happened, and later she decided she'd rather have the daughter she inherited rather than me. Leonard & Brad: Ha, ha, ha, ha… Leonard: So, with Kira, she was, like you said, black Baptist, brought up in Alabama and Leonard was Jewish, and her mother was equally opposed to it, as my mother was, or Leonard's mother, as she was played in the book and with Kara's unbelievable skill, she slowly, but gradually, changed her mother to supporting it, because she realized she had to support it. And I did this, or Leonard did the same with his mother. I don’t know. Does that answer your question? Brad: Yes, yes. Both mothers, Leonard's mother in the book, and Kira’s were both very strongwilled women who knew what they wanted. It was interesting. The husbands were a little more laid back about the whole thing. They were a little bit more ready to say, “Well, alright, let’s see how this goes.” But the portrayals of the two mothers were really, I think they're really a good part of the book. I thought it was fun, you know, they’re interplay back and forth so. Alright, let’s see. So, again the issue of racism in 1968 Florida, which, Florida is the South. I mean people don't think it is, but you know it's not, it isn't the most liberal state in the world. I guess my question is, did you set it in Florida because of your familiarity with Florida, or because of the nature of the racism, or because it's a paradisical setting for a love, a romantic relationship? How many of those, or were any of those, factors in why you set it in Florida? Leonard: Probably all of them. But the main one was familiarity. I lived in Florida for oh, at least 16 years, 17 years, something like that! And every place that I've mentioned in Florida I've been to, in my job as a counselor. And that includes Gainesville. That's where I got my degree. Jacksonville, I went to the Tampa Bay area when I was 14, spent about 12 or more years in Miami. I knew the place. I also knew the way people related down there. Not that they related the same way every place, but I knew how they related in a lot of different areas. Like I said, where I worked mostly was next to the Ghetto. And I had to go into the Ghetto often, and I knew a lot about how things work there, and I knew how the blacks related to whites. Let me tell you this story. I modeled Kira partially after this woman who taught at Florida University, Florida International University. She came to our place, to the Judiification Service, to let us know that there was a program that they had set up there for sensitivity training, and I had long wanted to get training in sensitivity. So I took advantage of that, and part of the training was, we met on the green and sat around and had a sensitivity group which this woman led very aptly. While she was there. She got sick once, and everybody went to help her. You know, show that they cared, and so forth. And then she came back, and she was fine. Well, on the last day she gave us an exercise of writing on a piece of paper, or something, you could put a name on it. You could address it to somebody, just make it anonymous, mix it in the bowl. And then just people picked out whatever one that was there for them, and a lot of people wrote to her, to this leader, and they said how much they liked her, and so forth, how good she was. And she, in the middle of it, just broke down and cried, because she said, “I don't talk this way to anybody, except when I'm talking to whites.” Says, “Because we learned that we have to talk that way if we want to get ahead.” So, if I'm talking to my family, or to my friends, or something, you're gonna hear something different, and she said; “The reason I’m crying is because when I started this group, I thought, and I was determined not to really care for the people I was working with, that it would all be an act. But I found out that I couldn't do that.” She said, “And it's because that I can I can no longer carry the farce. I really do care very deeply for you and I'm just about now finding that out.” And of course Kira had those skills. She was able to talk black. She was able to get along in the white area and so forth. Brad: So, anyway, it does show how many minority groups have to pretend to be something acceptable, something that isn’t fully them. The LGBTQ people had to do that for many years. They have to sort of pretend to be someone else and This is sort of the same thing, I mean, and it's a thing that society will say, you can only be this way for us to accept you. Very, very, very interesting, and very unfortunate. In relation to all these issues involving race, and so on, you mentioned in the novel, something called the Green Book. The Green Book, I'm going to say it. Certainly want you to explain it, but it had to do with informing people where to go and where not to go in terms of safety that would be accepted. Speak a little bit about the Green Book. Leonard: Yeah, I don't know where I found out about the green book, but I knew it before I started the book. And I have actually ordered a copy from Amazon because they don't make it anymore. It was started in the early 1920s by a couple who lived in Harlem, and they actually traveled the world, or rather the United States, back roads and all over. And the book tells you which hotels who are safe for black people, which ones are welcoming, which ones have the services. They even have privies for the black people, and what roads was it safe to travel down. Because they had to be very careful, particularly in the South. Because the black people started to have their own cars, by 1920 at least. But the whites didn't like it they didn't like them to have a nice car, and if you rode a nice car, which, if you had you wanna use it, and you go into the wrong place, you might not come out with the car, or maybe not even your life. So that book included everything. I think it also did a little bit of selling of items and stuff like that. But any traveler, any black traveler, had carried a Green Book with them. But the people who made the book said that when they don't have to make it anymore. Then they'll stop producing it. And of course they haven't produced it for many years, since the Jim Crow laws got struck down, more or less. So, I want to have a real personal knowledge of it and I'll have a copy soon. It's taking a long, long time to get here. I don't have it yet. So that's what the Green Book is. Brad: Oh, that's fascinating. And a bit unnerving, things were at that stage. I know that a lot of jazz bands who were interracial would have a lot of problems staying in certain hotels, they would say, Well, you guys can stay here but he can't. And we’re doing a little better now, anyway. So, alright, I wanted to just move on to the relationship between Leonard and Merlyn. I guess in today’s parlance that we call it a bromance. They interacted much like two human males that were better friends in the sense of basically abusing one another in a friendly way, and clever sort of insulting put down type stuff. And that is how guys behave. Was that intentional to make the story better, or was it intentional to make Merlyn seem more human, or what was it? Leonard: Probably all the things that you mentioned. But you know it helps to put humor in the book. Brad: Yes. Leonard: And it wouldn't have been interesting without a character who was able to talk back and hold his own, and really be a little tiny turtle. Brad: Yup. Leonard: Not as smart anyway. And the relationship between Leonard and Merlyn plays off on each other, and it creates, that's part of the glue that holds the book together. Because whatever's going on with Leonard or Merlyn, the other one is inimicably involved. Brad: Um hm. Yeah, it was very effective, very real. Like I said it's seemed like male friends, and I mean it was male friends. One just happened to be a turtle. Leonard: Yup. Brad: I don't want to give anything away at the end, but one of the things that I just loved about that happened in the ending was the creation of something called the Institute for the Realization of Potential. Now you and I have worked in the same field as rehab counselors and a lot of times who really we're into what we were doing and really took our jobs very seriously, and were very frustrated by the system overall, always dreamed about creating this dream facility where we'd really be able to serve the people instead of spending half our day doing paperwork. We wait. Did that happen to you? And was that where the Institute came from? Leonard: Yeah, I worked for the Vocational Rehabilitation in Florida for about two and a half years, and the whole time I worked for them I was not all that comfortable. Personally, I was the first Jew to work in Miami of all places for them. Of course, they got a lot of Jews as they expanded, and they expanded to new offices and so forth. But I could see that there was some prejudice that they wouldn't have been aware of. But I could have dealt with that pretty easily. But, you could see the paperwork beginning to gather, and, whether you were a successful counselor or not, was a paper game. And I played that game very well. I could make myself look very good on paper, and eventually I didn’t know who my next supervisor was gonna be, and I left, and I moved to the Jewish Vocational Service when I interned. I actually did a double intern, and the Judification Service was one of the places. So the usual case, vocational service was more, much more oriented towards the way things were. And we weren't yet mired in the same kind of paperwork. But even that began to overwhelm us as we went. And so that also became less than ideal as time went on. So, I just invented a place that would have the qualities of both places and some of the other places. I'd been like McLenny and so forth. But it wouldn't be mired down with the paperwork, and by paperwork, I mean like statistics and stuff like that. Brad: Oh yeah. Leonard: The philosophy at that time was Pavlov's dogs and so forth. I forget what you call that. But anyway, so this was going to be led by Harold. He led and it wasn't going to have all that paperwork and that kind of stuff, was gonna be an ideal situation. Brad: It really was. I mean, I’m retired, but I would love to work in a place like that. As I said before, for many of us in the field who care about what we're doing, dreamed about places like that. So, I think I love that part. I mean, that just was personally very appealing. Speaking of disability realizing potential in the human world Merlyn had a lot of functional limitations that needed to be addressed. Well, not having hands, and not being able to climb up things, and so on and so forth. So you picked a creature that require a lot of reasonable accountation. Was that plan thing, or did it just happen that way? Probably a monkey would have been simpler to use. Leonard: Well, it didn't start out with that kind of planning, but then, as the book developed, as it progressed, we had to make accommodations for turtle, and it turned out that he was a perfect person for that. Don’t know what else to call him, except the person. He didn’t have hands. He couldn't climb. He needed all kinds of aids. He couldn’t even talk. And we get a way for him to talk on the telephone, and that's where Joel was so important, because he solved all of the technical problems of how that would work, and making a place for him to live, and they were all challenging, and they helped to make the book progress as we went along. Brad: It fit in very well with the creation of the Institute for Realization and Potential. It illustrated in parallel as it was happening. It was kind of neat. I think we're running out of time, so I’ve one more question for you. What would you like the take aways from your book to be for people? When they’re done reading it, what should they keep with them after reading it? Leonard: Leonard and Merlyn have these problems, and they overcome them. They have their, uh, desires. They meet them. They end up in a very good position. They get unbelievable help, and they work out everything. So that the takeaway message is that. If you know what you want and you're willing to sacrifice for it, and you try it and try to get it, you'll be better off than if you didn't and you may actually succeed in getting everything. But if you don't succeed, you will succeed in getting something just as good, or better. Or even if you don't, the trying of it is going to be worth your while, and you're gonna benefit from it. So go ahead and live life. Brad: Yeah, excellent. That's pretty much what I did take away from it. As I said I think we’ve run out of interview time, so. Ann: Yes, indeed. Brad: All righty. Ann: I think we're just going to let people unmute themselves and say their name and ask their question. Abbie: Okay, we still have one raised hand. So, Sally still has her hand up. Ann: Right. Abbie: So maybe we should just let her go first. Ann: Yes. Abbie: Maybe since she’s got her hand up. Go ahead and unmute. Leonard: It's a little tricky. Abbie: Okay, I believe you are unmuted, Sally. Sally Rosenthal: Okay. Abbie: So, go ahead and talk. Sally: Okay, I am unmuted. Leonard, Did you know anything about turtles before you started to write this book? Because, your description. No, I'm serious. It just occurred to me as you were talking. Your descriptions are so visual and so real, and I'm wondering if you, or if you were able to, some kind of magnified image of turtles, or your wife Diane helped you understand what they look like, and how they moved? Leonard: Well, remember I'm not totally blind now. I can still see. And I saw a lot better in my younger days. Merlyn, actually when I started, his model was a turtle, a painted turtle, of the kind you used to buy at the store and my girlfriend had a pool in our yard, and we had a skimmer on it, and the turtle actually died that way. He got caught in the skimmer. Brad: Oof. Sally: Awe. Leonard: So, I had Merlyn also have the experience with a skimmer, and he almost died. But his boy saved him. Other than that I've had my share of box turtles, you know, just for a day or two or I would travel in the Mangrove Swamps a lot and knew something about the Everglades, and so forth, and you always have turtles in there. But I didn't have any particular knowledge about it. Sally: Okay. Thank You. Abbie: Alice Maasa, has her hand raised. Alice Massa: Hi, Abbie, can you hear me? Abbie: Yes, ma'am. Alice: Oh, good. Congratulations, Leonard, on book number two, and I would like to know at what point in all of those 100 chapters were you, when you figured out in your own mind, or on your computer, how you were going to resolve all of these points that you brought up, and how you were going to resolve all the characters. That's my question. And then I do want to say that the epilogue at the end, and I'm not going to give away anything, I don't believe by saying this. But it's so nice to read that epilogue and hear how you have let us know about these characters. Leonard: Well, there were about 20 or more resolution points as the book wore on. I had the problem of Leonard looking for, what's her name? I can't remember my character's name, ha. Carla, yeah, of Merlyn finding his Angela, and these got solved one thing after another, after another and so the answer is, to when I knew how it was going to resolve, I would say about chapter 90 or something, and then, I wasn't quite sure how, the details of the resolution until I started to write them down. Alice: And when you began those early chapters, did you have any idea that it would be 100 chapters long? Leonard: No. Alice: I remember when you shared those first few chapters just one at a time with us, and I know I never dreamed you'd carry it forward as much as you did, but quite an effort on your part, Leonard. Leonard: Oh, thank you. Abbie: Rhonda, you can go ahead and speak. Rhonda Lee: Leonard, my sister, and her husband, Elise and Craig Gold, live about an hour inland from Panama City, Florida, on a really busy road, and they have repaired so many turtle shells with silicon cock. Leonard: Ha. Rhonda: So, you can see their love of turtles. But most importantly, for this is, they sell books to all of the school districts in Florida, so I wanted your permission to send her that nice little promo that you did about the book with how to get a copy if I can just forward that to them. Leonard: Sure. Rhonda: Well, good luck! And it just sounds fabulous. Congratulations! Leonard: Well, thank you. Abbie: Well, I'm not seeing any other raised hands. I have a question, Leonard. You published a book. I would say a book of…Oh, well, there's another hand, but let me ask my question first real quick as long as I'm yimmer yammering away here. Your last book, was it last spring? And what is the name of that book? Maybe tell us a little bit about that book. Leonard: Oh, that was a book of poetry, Journey To Elsewhere. Yeah. Abbie: Okay. Poetry, okay. Leonard: It was a compilation of poems. I forget how many poems it had, but it was a thin book, but not as thin as most ode poetry books would be, and it was a first attempt I made. I figured I better get something published if I wanted any credibility as an author. So, I published that. I wasn't as accomplished then, as I hope I've gotten, but I like the book very much. I think most people too, particularly if they grew up in New Jersey, New York and a little bit of Miami, they would find a lot of remembrances, probably for them. Brad: Now, Leonard, that was written, you published that a few years ago though, right? Leonard: Yeah. Brad: That was awhile back? Leonard: More than two years ago. Yeah, it was 1914. Rhonda: Two thousand fourteen. Leonard: Nineteen fourteen. Brad: 1914 would have been quite an achievement. Everyone: Laughs. Leonard: 2014. I am a century off, by the way. Abbie: Oh, Sandra had her hand up, and then she lowered. Sandra, did you have something to say, or did you change your mind? Sandra Streeter: No, no. I don’t know what now. Abbie. Okay. Ann; It’s just gremlins. Abbie; Okay, alright, well… Brad: We have entered the Twilight Zone. Ann: So, it's 5:52, and unless anybody else has any questions, we can entertain the final remarks about Behind Our Eyes, before we close out. Marilyn Smith: Okay, this is great one Sally: Hi Marilyn. Marilyn: Hi, Marilyn and I'm President of Behind Our Eyes, and this is regarding some of the things that we have to offer. It's so rewarding to hear someone talk about their book, who we've been writing with for all these years, and I know that this will be heard beyond tonight, because it will be on our website. It may go some other places. Leonard’s story is so unique. Who would have ever imagined finding a way to have two lives aligned like that? You know a turtle and a man, it's just very unique, and I applaud you for it. Marilyn: For those of you listening to this who are writers with disabilities. It doesn't matter what level you're at beginning or already published. Whatever, joining with us and taking advantage of some of the opportunities we have to offer like this one tonight, a chance to present something you've published and have it listened to, and questions asked by a very intuitive and eager audience. We also have critique groups and sessions and conference calls of a panel nature, and also interviews with other authors. And we talk about how to get material ready for publishing. Marilyn: One of our most recent efforts is classes taught by and attended by Behind Our Eyes members, and we talk about the genres and the mechanics of writing. Does that kind of belong there? Ha, ha. There is a join us link, behind our eyes, dot org. There is also accessibility to definitions or descriptions of all the various branches that we have to offer. Marilyn: And if you do decide to join with us, you will be met and greeted by one of our welcoming committee people who can help you sort through the options and you're out what if you're just listening for the fun of it. Please come to our website and check out what we have to offer. We have some recordings of our authors reading their work, and we would just love to have you continue to attend these book presentations with us. Thanks so much to Brad and Leonard. This was a delightful evening, and just a very interesting book that I think we'll all enjoy. That's my part. Ann; Thanks, Marilyn. Any last words, Leonard. Leonard: Just I enjoy this intensely, and I appreciate the interests everybody shown in it. So, thank you all. Ann: Thank you. Good night, everyone. Abbie; Good night. Brad: Good night. Abbie: Good night. Diane: Thank you. Readers Note: If you have found this transcript to be helpful, please take a moment to let us know by sending a brief message to Marlene Mesot at: Marl.Mesot@gmail.com. You may also contact someone you know in our writers’ group. Thank you very much.